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[ July, 2009 | No Comments ]

Up Close and Personal with Annie Duke

“I’m also passionate about my professional life. I’m not somebody who would be good at doing a job just to get by. I need to really believe in what I’m doing.”
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Poker players have a language all their own. Being unfamiliar with the vernacular, I used the glossary in the back of Anne Duke’s autobiography, “Annie Duke: How I Raised, Folded, Bluffed, Flirted, Cursed and Won Millions,” to craft something clever that would illustrate the colorful jargon.

A dog sitting on the bank of a river with two cowboys says to a shark floating by on a boat, “How does it feel to be busted by a donkey on a bicycle?”

While poker players wouldn’t say something so enigmatic, I bet that Annie Duke could easily interpret the cryptic line. Here’s the translation: Three people are playing poker. The underdog, who picked up a pair of kings with the last card dealt, says to the poker pro, who’s sitting pretty with a full house, “How does it feel to get beaten by a bad player who, by sheer luck, is holding a straight flush?”

Getting back to Annie’s book, it’s a great tutorial as well as a roadmap of her remarkable journey from the distinguished world of academia to her foray into the world of poker where she has earned the reputation, in this male-dominated sport, of being one of the most well-known, respected, and professional players in the world.

That’s quite an achievement in a game that requires great intellect. And with brains comes money. The World Series of Poker Championship, which is held every year at the Rio Hotel & Casino, is the highest paying sporting event anywhere – bigger than the Kentucky Derby or Wimbledon.

The WSOP began in 1970 when Benny Binion assembled seven top poker players who played a no-limit marathon that lasted five months with the only prize being the title of “World Champion.” The following year Binion put up a cash prize of $30,000.

When Annie won the title in 2004, the amount had grown to $2 million. She also won her first World Series of Poker gold bracelet, which made her the only woman to ever win two major tournaments in one year.

Just to illustrate how fast the poker world is growing, in 2008 666,844 players vied for a share of $64,633,000, with the winner, Peter Eastgate, taking home a whopping $9,588,487.

Annie’s reputation recently expanded well beyond the realm of poker when she sat opposite Donald Trump in the boardroom during this past season’s “Celebrity Apprentice.” Out of 16 participants, she came in second and earned an amazing $730,000 for her charity Refugees International. But then Annie is used to dealing with big numbers.

I spoke with Annie right before she headed over to the Rio, where the WSOP is going on until July 15. As you will see in this Up Close and Personal, Annie Duke not only has a brain, but a big heart. She’s aces in my book. And I’m not bluffing.

upclose_02_0709Marsala Rypka: Describe yourself in three words.

Annie Duke: Can I ask the people in the room with me? Oh wait, Joe just gave a great answer – whore, pit viper. Did you watch “The Apprentice?” No, I’ll give you a real answer, but that’s a funny one (laugh). I’d say fiercely loyal, determined, and one that people would never guess, sweet. People wouldn’t know that because I don’t put my personal life out to the public. People will say, “she’s not sweet, she’s scary.”

MR: Name something people would be surprised to learn about you?

AD: That I’m pretty funny. Also I’m double Ivy League educated. I went to a very hoity-toity boarding school where my father taught. I grew up on the East Coast and did the typical East Coast education. I did my undergrad at Columbia in New York, where I double-majored in English and psychology. Then I went to UPenn Graduate School. I had a Natural Science Foundation Fellowship, which is very hard to come by. Somehow I convinced them to give it to me and then I put the government’s money to good use by becoming a poker player.

MR: What are you passionate about?

AD: Three things. Above all else, I’m passionate about my children, my parents, my siblings, and my boyfriend. I’m very protective of that part of my life.

I’m also passionate about my professional life. I’m not somebody who would be good at doing a job just to get by. I need to really believe in what I’m doing. I’m extremely passionate about poker. Not just playing the game. I do fantasy camps and I’m one of the main instructors at the WSOP Academy. I believe in the quality of life the game can bring you by helping you become a better decision maker. I’m also an advocate and lobby Congress for players’ rights.

Third is my charity work. When people thank me during a charity event, it’s like thanking me for breathing. I was raised that when you have a life like I do, where you’ve managed to make so much happen for yourself, it’s your obligation as a human being on this planet to give back and do what you can for people who aren’t as fortunate. I’m passionate about the refugee situation. We’re spoiled in this country and take things for granted. We have this idea that if people haven’t done for themselves, it’s because they’re not trying hard enough, rather than because of the lack of opportunity. I don’t think we can really fathom what it’s like to be completely disenfranchised, to have no voice, to not have a government that’s trying to protect and help you have a better life. Through the accident of birth, and being born in the geographical location I was, to amazing parents who believed in education and gave me a strong belief in myself, I am able to do what I can for people, who through the accident of geography, were born in Darfur.

I’m also focused on my work as a board member with the Decision Education Foundation, which teaches decision-making skills to kids K-12. We spend a lot of time on reading, writing, and arithmetic, but a big piece that’s missing from our educational system is teaching kids how to make good life decisions and that’s what I talk to high school students about.

My kids understand that they are allowed to complain about me being gone when I have to go work but they cannot complain when I’m doing charity work.

MR: What three people have had the greatest influence on your life?

AD: My brother, Howard Lederer, is number one on my list. He’s my mentor and best friend. He started playing poker ten years before I did and without him I’d never be a poker player. Everything has come to me because of poker. I would never have met Don Cheadle and started Ante Up For Africa with him and Norman Epstein. I wouldn’t have the platform to do the work we’ve done.

My parents, who gave me the values I have. One of the things they made me recognize is that when you’re successful, it’s not because you deserve it more than other people. It’s a collision of hard work, opportunity, and being in the right place at the right time. I’ve passed that on to my children. There are people who are working their asses off to support their families who aren’t where I’m at, not because they’re stupid, but because they didn’t have the education I’ve had or parents who brought them up with a belief that they could do anything or the tremendous opportunities I did, which didn’t come because we were rich.

We actually grew up quite poor in a single-income family. My father was the only Jewish department head at one of the preppiest boarding schools in New England. To make matters worse, my parents were politically liberal in a sea of conservatism. Many of my father’s faculty colleagues were St. Paul alumni. For Christmas, they’d jet to the Caribbean and during the summer they went to their vacation homes on Nantucket while my father flipped burgers at Howdy Beef & Burger in Concord, New Hampshire. But money isn’t what makes opportunity. The belief in the power of your own intellect, the power of education, the ability to communicate and persuade people to your point of view are so much more important than money. In some ways, growing up with money can be a hindrance.

Erik Seidel, a fellow poker player. He has the most emotional control of anyone I’ve ever met. I try to model myself after him.

upclose_01_0709MR: How did you and Don Cheadle start Ante Up For Africa?

AD: Don and I were having lunch and talking about the lack of attention in the world toward Darfur. I had just come from a charity tournament because charity poker tournaments raise millions of dollars every year and a light blub went off. Don and I and Norman Epstein founded Ante Up for Africa in September 2006. Norm is as important, if not more important, than Don and me because he runs the organization. I’d like to say we had vision, but we weren’t thinking big. We thought we would do a tournament at one of the clubs in California and maybe raise $20,000. I thought Jeffrey Pollack, the Commissioner of the World Series of Poker could help; maybe he could get Harrah’s involved. We met with Jeffrey and he was more enthusiastic than we could have hoped. He said why are you thinking so small? You should run a tournament during the WSOP when all the big-money poker players are in one place. We had our first event in July 2007 and raised $700,000. Since then we’ve raised $2.1 million. Our third Ante Up For Africa is July 2, 2009 and it’s going to be filmed by ESPN. We expect it to be bigger and better.

MR: What is your greatest strength and your greatest weakness?

AD: My greatest strength is that I really believe in myself. I have a bulldog determination and belief that I can accomplish whatever I’m determined to. I have two weaknesses. First is an overdeveloped sense of fairness. I really get upset when things aren’t fair, not in regard to me, but in terms of the world which is supposed to be fair. I also suffer fools poorly. It’s really horrible because I end up coming off dismissive. I’m working hard at controlling it because it makes me a complete asshole. It’s awful. Late in life I’m trying to fix it.

MR: Who would you trade places with for 24 hours?

AD: Someone like Hitler or Stalin. I don’t think I could actually murder Hitler, but if I were him, I could kill myself.

MR: What pet peeves do you have?

AD: This is going to make me sound like an asshole, but grammatical usage is a pet peeve. Like when people don’t know the difference between “less and fewer,” or “amount and number.” I can’t stand when people say, “between you and I.” My father was a grammarian so I come by it honestly. Another pet peeve is that I don’t think people maintain table manners like they used to. I can’t stand when people chew with their mouth open or when you’re with a group of people who start eating before everyone has their food. It drives me nuts. My kids think I’m the ‘Table Manner Nazi.’ It also bothers me that people don’t inform themselves about issues. A great example is that Proposition 8 passed in California. People believed it when they were told that if gays are allowed to get married, their church would be forced to marry them. They didn’t do any research to find out if it was true, which it’s not. It’s just a logical leap. A pastor can refuse to marry a heterosexual couple, so clearly he wouldn’t be forced to marry a homosexual couple. But that was a big part of how it got passed. People believed the propaganda and that’s a huge pet peeve of mine.

People don’t understand the separation of church and state, so they think morals are supposed to be legislated instead of letting people choose their own path. This also pertains to some recent gambling legislation and certainly gay-right issues. Gay people getting married has no effect on me. I’m not being forced to watch them have sex, I don’t have to be friends with them, I don’t have to live in their shoes and I certainly don’t have to marry a woman, so it’s none of my business. They are not doing any direct harm to me.

MR: What is your most treasured material possession?

AD: I wouldn’t be heartbroken if I lost anything material.

MR: Describe a perfect day?

AD: I don’t get to hang out with my family as much as I’d like so everything would revolve around them. I’d wake up in the morning and make breakfast for my kids. We’d go to the movies, have Brazilian barbecue for lunch which they love, play the game Apples to Apples. All kid stuff. Then I’d get them to bed, and Joe and I would go to the movies and get to cuddle.

MR: What kind of movies do you like?

AD: Anything from crappy horror to serious independent to action. I loved “Star Trek,” although “Terminator” sucked.

MR: In your book you said you thought you were too selfish to be a mother, yet you have four children and are a totally devoted mom.

AD: It was good to worry about being a mom. The commitment you have to make to a child is overwhelming. People who go into it with a blind eye, thinking it’s going to be so wonderful, are unpleasantly surprised because it’s a lot of freakin’ work and you don’t get to think about yourself for 18 years. I went into it with my eyes open and I wasn’t shocked by how much work it is. My natural pessimism turned into my being pleasantly surprised. You should have to get a license to have children.

MR: What five people would you invite to a dinner party?

AD: Oscar Wilde would be hilarious. He liked sex and drinking and got thrown in jail for moral violations. How fun would he be at the table? I’d invite Vladimir Nabokov, who’s the most brilliant writer ever. He wrote “Lolita,” my favorite book on earth. Bill Clinton for sure; needs no explanation, right? I want to have Jesus at the table so he can explain that the crazy people who try to push their religion on you are wrong. And I’d want George Bush at the table. This is going to sound mean, but I’ve grabbed the four smartest, most brilliant people and I’d want to put George Bush at the table with them. I’m seriously sadistic. It would be hilarious to see how George Bush handles Oscar Wilde.

MR: What is your greatest extravagance?

AD: I don’t do laundry anymore. Someone comes to the house three times a week. With four children, I spent ten years doing four loads a day. I said that when I had enough money I would never touch the washing machine.

MR: I have to ask about “Celebrity Apprentice.” After all that happened between you and Joan Rivers, what was your overall experience of the show? I especially loved the episode when you were asked to write a song, which freaked you out, and then the judges liked your song better than the one Clint Black wrote.

AD: Overall it was positive. I raised a lot of money for charity and made some lasting friendships with some of the contestants like Brande Roderick, Hershel Walker, Jesse James, and Natalie Gulbis. I also got close with the task producers who have the really hard job of following us around for 15 hours every day for five weeks.

MR: What is your biggest regret?

AD: That I left UPenn right before getting my Ph.D.

MR: For five years you taught, wrote scholarly treaties, gave presentations at conferences, and were published in academic journals, but you said that your heart wasn’t in it so you married a friend, Ben Duke, and escaped to Montana. When money was so tight that you couldn’t afford the $125 mortgage payment on your 400-square-foot leaky shack, you went to the Crystal Lounge in Billings where you learned to play poker with “thick-fingered cowboys and boozing rednecks.” You slipped off your shoes, tucked your bare feet under your butt, and as the dealer tossed you an ace-queen, you said you knew you were home. Fifteen years later, you’re a celebrity on national TV and you’ve coached people like Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, Ashton Kutcher and Charles Barkley on their poker game. Did you ever imagine this kind of success?

AD: I thought I was going to be a college professor. When I started playing poker it wasn’t televised, so I thought I would toil in anonymity, which was fine with me. Then they started filming my job and I thought okay now that I am going to be famous, through no fault of my own, how can I shine some of this silly light onto the causes I care about?

MR: How has poker changed?

AD: In 2003 the Travel Channel launched the World Poker Tour and made the game interesting to a mass audience by putting a camera in the side of the poker table so viewers could peek at the two facedown ‘hole’ cards dealt to the players at the start of each hand. The other phenomenon propelling poker was the internet. In 2003 before poker hit television, online sites pulled in $300,000. Eighteen months later it was up to $3.2 million a day. Every day online players wage about $124 million in more than 100 online poker rooms. Only two percent of the poker players in the world play online. By some estimates there are 60 million poker players in the U.S.

MR: During the 2004 WSOP, 234 players, which included you and two other women, competed in the No-Limit Texas Hold’em Championship. You made it to the final table and defeated nine of the biggest names in poker – Doyle Brunson, Johnny Chan, Phil Ivey, T.J. Cloutier, Phil Hellmuth, Daniel Negreanu, Greg Raymer, Chip Reese, Erik Seidel, and your brother, Howard Lederer. You won $2 million as well as your first World Series gold bracelet. What was that like?

AD: It was so important because up until then I was like the Phil Mickelson of poker, always coming in second, never able to close the deal, and I felt that keenly. The World Series of Poker is the pinnacle of achievement you can have in my profession and I had been so close so many times that it was a relief.

MR: Why don’t you play in the women’s poker tournaments?

AD: I think it’s discriminatory and anti-feminist to have a ladies tournament. When you separate people in competitive arenas it’s because you feel they are significantly different in how they are being measured. In tennis men are obviously faster and stronger so it’s not fair to have women compete against them. But in poker the only thing you’re measuring is someone’s mental agility. So by separating men and women you’re saying something negative about a woman’s mental ability versus a man’s. It’s amazing that people don’t see that because if I said I was going to have a ‘black only’ tournament, people would be up in arms. They’d say I was prejudiced and discriminatory. They can see it right away in that context because they understand that poker measures intelligence.

MR: Do you think women are intimidated to play with men?

AD: Definitely. They haven’t been taught that it’s okay to compete with men so they don’t have that confidence, which is a statement about our social mores. Most women don’t think of it that way. They’ve decided they can make a lot of money playing women’s tournaments and they don’t care about the feminist issue. That’s fine, whatever floats your boat. I happen to care about the feminist issue.

MR: What skills are needed to play poker?

AD: You have to make split-second statistical calculations at the same time you’re reading your opponents for psychological and physical clues about what cards they’re holding or what moves they’re likely to make. Poker requires you to be an actor, deliberately misleading others about your intentions, hiding your excitement or disappointment in a hand. It can be frustrating, exhilarating, humiliating, even brutal. When I play a hand as it should be played, I feel the surge that I imagine quarterbacks feel when they throw a touchdown.

MR: You lived in Las Vegas early in your career.

AD: For seven years, so I have a comfort level here. I don’t get a lot of time with my mom, so the nicest thing about being in Vegas is that I stay with her for a month. I also get to see my brother and my poker friends for one month straight. And we’re foodies. There are some great Japanese restaurants here. We love Naked Fish.

MR: Do you still have as much of a killer instinct as you once did?

AD: I’m much more okay with losing. You realize what’s in your control and what isn’t. Poker is a great template for life because it has the same kind of problems. It has taught me some important lessons, like not to be too hard on yourself; to understand that just because you lose doesn’t mean you played bad, and just because you win, it doesn’t mean you played well. That goes back to the adage about being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple. Also understanding that your emotions can negatively affect your ability to make good decisions in your life.

MR: Good luck Annie. I’ll be rooting for you.

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